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TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.04.27 11:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
There have been many discussions about it before. What stands out, and it appears to be the only issue, is that the mining ships posses too little powergrid these days.
Newer industrial ships like the Noctis (250 PG) and Primea (175PG) have noticeably more powergrid than a Hulk (35PG). T2 transporters like the Mastodon and Bustard can easily be shield-tanked to about 50k eHP only by using their mid-slots, though they can go higher of course.
Neither the Noctis nor the Primea are particularly designed to operate in "deep space" as it is the case with the Hulk (see ship descriptions). The T2 transporters, which are designed for "deep space" and share a large cargo hold with the Hulk, do not have powergrid issues (200+ PG) either. Btw, it is not clear what exactly this "deep space" is, because no space is safe and one can be in a war anywhere.
Edit: I forgot, there is another issue. The training time for going from a T1 Covetor to a T2 Hulk is far too short. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.04.27 16:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Warpshade wrote:I think the Macks defo have fitting issues vs slots, but the Hulk seems fine imho. Its a Mining ship not a military vessel, the cost imo is associated with its mining ability, not its tanking.
[Hulk, SafeMiner] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Survey Scanner II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
I gets 27,835 EHP uniform damage, with my skills in EFT with that fit. That to me seems a pretty good EHP and thats without Orca bonuses!
I get the same eHP on an Occator, without fitting a DCU II, without the need for Power Core II but with cargo rigs and 7 Cargo Expander IIs, which is basically a non-PvP fit and maxed for cargo space.
If you actually meant what you say, then you would not be arguing against bringing mining ships in line with the rest of the industrials, but you would demand to nerf transport ships and other ships to make them more gankable. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.04.27 17:32:00 -
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Petrus Blackshell wrote:Hulks have fine EHP. ... What does a Hulk need? More agility. A triple-1600-plated Abaddon aligns a couple of seconds faster than a Hulk without any armor mods does, and the Abaddon is almost 3x as massive as the Hulk. That's just embarassing. By your logic does a Hulk have a fine align time, too:
[Hulk, Hulk aligns]
Modulated Strip Miner II Modulated Strip Miner II Modulated Strip Miner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Small Shield Extender II
Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Hobgoblin II x5 Mining Drone II x5
It aligns in <10s. You have no point there. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.04.27 18:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:The agility is to encourage and make mining in places other than hisec belts feasible for those who are actually at their computer and paying attention. 10 seconds is not enough to get away from much of anything in lowsec/nullsec. A Hulk that's been caught doesn't have any more chance of surviving than a Viator or an Occator that was caught. The tank exists to keep it safe in hisec. The speed/agility/cloak/other such mobility features exist to facilitate travel and safety elsewhere. The Hulk is lacking in mobility, not tank. Again, it is not a point. When you say the eHP is fine by fitting a ship for max eHP then you cannot argue that it lacks agility when you can fit it to have max. agility.
Or let me put it another way. When 10 seconds is not enough to get away with a Hulk, then why is 14s enough for an Abaddon all while one can lock onto an Abaddon faster than one can lock onto a Hulk? ... |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.04.27 23:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:This is exactly the sort of stuff why people have fun while killing miners. Again, not a point. By your logic can one ask to make any ship into a joke, have uber ships and every thinkable imbalance. You are not making any sense. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.04.30 11:10:00 -
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Lubomir Sakato wrote:I-¦m very surprised by the ignorance some miners show when it comes to this never ending Hulks/Suicideganking threadnaughts.
Even after the very well laid out, highly detailed and factual argumentations provided by Petrus, Arazel and FTDiomedes people seem still to refuse to see the real point of all this discussions. There is no absolute safety in EVE. If sbdy want-¦s to play a game that gives him that feature it has to be different game. If ships in EVE would be tweaked in this manner the whole point of EVE would have been gone. ... The ignorance is with you. People like you constantly rant about how they know what others think and what others do wrong. Miners know quite well that it is not safe. You on the other hand keep telling yourself the same old meme like the dumbest trolls do. When are you going to start to realize it? To me are you just some kid on the Internet who constantly rants about how weak mining ships need to be and that they do not need to be brought in line with the rest as if you were afraid of standing of the wrong side. One can tell the difference between a player who knows what he is doing and one who hides behind his guns. You then do not see miners telling you how to fit and fly your ship, do you? Hardly anyone who flies a Hulk in high-sec is still only a miner. So please tell when do you stop being ignorant. I would really like to see a discussion with facts and good arguments and none of this troll crap. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.04.30 22:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote:One can tell the difference between a player who knows what he is doing and one who hides behind his guns. [...] I would really like to see a discussion with facts and good arguments and none of this troll crap. Then perhaps you should stop. *******. trolling. Just stop crying. Nobody wants to read it.
You have no idea and you people always turn any Hulk/mining thread into this attention seeking crap about how people do not get it. Have you ever only for once considered that miners do get you, but you bore them to death, Captain Obvious?
Every miner, who is not exactly a rookie, knows that afk mining is dumb and they risk their ships. How many times do you want to keep running that bit of wisdom down the Internet? You stop. Rookies tell one another the basics on the help chat during their first week!
Fact is you need to warp out as soon as a destroyer enters the belt. A Hulk, fully tank might want to stay, but as soon as two destroyers show up does everyone need to warp out. All you then need to do is to take a destroyer and fly through every belt. Give it a try and watch what the players will do. You will see quite a few miners do warp off just as you want them to. It is the consequence and gankers now chase miners out of the belts for laughs when they cannot find anyone to gank. This is where we currently are with mining.
Start catching up when you can. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 00:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I apologize ... Start to read what I wrote. Stop being so full or yourself. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 08:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:... Now you are only empty quoting. You still think you are not a troll? ...
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Guys don't you hate it one your bulldozer doesn't handle like a sports car well having the armor plates of a tank and the fire power of a battalion? am i right or what? If my "bulldozer" would handle like a sports car then I would be afraid that it either falls apart any second, because of its ultra-light build, or, it is going to break my neck, because of the enormous power it holds. Anyhow, moving dirt around is a difficult task and fighting like a battalion could likely mess up my dirt piles.
I really would like to be able to fit one LSEII or even just two MSEII on a Hulk like I can fit on pretty much any other industrial without having to bend the entire fit to make it work.
To those here who fail to compare the ship prices, because the concept of cost and a free market is too complicated for them shall look at the bill of materials instead. You will be surprised how realistic a price comparison actually can be. The prices for the ships are not drawn out of a hat ... |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 17:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13238341 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13238539 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13237837 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13238460 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13238366 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13237520 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13237965 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13238204 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13236860 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13236670
Any suggestions for a good Hulk fit? Seeing to what lengths some gankers go and how little damage it actually took do I see little hope for EFT warriors making any points. |
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TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 17:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote:...
Any suggestions for a good Hulk fit? Seeing to what lengths some gankers go and how little damage it actually took do I see little hope for EFT warriors making any points. There are no DCUs there. There are no properly tanked Hulks there. Learn to read!
I will condense it to fit into your brain: the gankers use up to 4 destroyers to gank untanked Hulks.
Now start thinking and do it fast. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 18:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote:the gankers use up to 4 destroyers to gank untanked Hulks. ... So tank your Hulk for 4x the EHP so they have to use 16 destroyers? No. You bring them in line with the rest of the ships and to give them a fair chance. What the players do with it - either to fly completely untanked Hulks, or to use 4 destroyers in a gank - is their business. You will continue to see both happening. Only will it not be as ridiculous as it is now to fit a decent tank onto a Hulk. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 19:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:As is though, miners who don't give one flip about their tank show nothing about the Hulk having a chance or not. It just shows that miners could use some fitting lessons. No. Stop pointing to those who cannot tank their Hulks as an excuse for not having an argument yourself. You would find kills of 20k-30k eHP Hulks, but I have not found one during my search (I am not going through 1000 kills). There are enough gankers around to kill any Hulk, tanked or untanked. My list of links should have given you an idea of the overkill and lack of detail on the side of the gankers. If they were actually planning their ganks and avoiding tanked Hulks then you would not see kills with 4 Catalysts killing a 4k eHP Hulk for example.
My guess is miners who know how to fit a ship and care about their Hulks do not care for ridiculous fits. They are smarter than you and they will not fill every slot and rig only to get 25k-30k eHP out of their 300m ISK ship (a T2 shield rig costs 100m ISK each and you end up with a 550m ISK ship!). What you think is realistic is unrealistic. EFT and PYFA do not teach you how to fly either. These tools let you tune your fit and only once you have a basic idea of what you want to go for. It does not make every possible fit automatically realistic. This is what you need to learn.
To fit a Hulk as you and others have suggested only means you have missed your chance to dock up and leave it in the hangar. One does not fly a crappy ship. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 19:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:If the Hulk were so bad a ship that it's not worth flying, like you claim, then it wouldn't be flown... like Marauders, for instance. You think Marauders are crappy ships? The Hulk is a crappy ship. Marauders are ok and they do not have a weak tank or a crappy DPS. The reason why you see so little Marauders is because you need to train a lot of skills before you can fly one and you can get faster into a Navy and pirate BS. If you need to compare Marauders with mining ships then you have to compare it with the Covetor. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 19:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:There so much fail in this post it is quite staggering Take your time. I am sure you will need lots of it. It always takes more time to make up arguments than to actually have some. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 20:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Marauders are a completely different issue ... Hulks aren't being flown because... oh wait, they are being flown. Way to shoot yourself into the foot.
Are you still arguing against or for the Hulk? I need to ask. You are really crap at making any kind of argument. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 20:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:No, actually his arguments make sense, you are just whining No, it does not and why would I be whining?! He fails to make sense in almost every of his comment. Then take a look at your comment. Nothing on topic. You only post to hold his hand.
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Main point: In my opinion, the Hulk's base tank is fine as is. If it needs changes, it's in other areas. Understand one thing. You do not get points for making cute rants. You need to back your arguments up with facts.
Others and I have shown you where the Hulk is lacking and given you numbers.
Do the same or STFU. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 21:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
it is not enough to say "eHP is fine". You have to compare it to the eHP of other ships before you see that it is not. 20k eHP on a Hulk is not fine. Compare it to a T2 transport, which is closest in its role to a mining ship, because it has got a large cargohold, is meant for deep space and not meant to deal damage. T2 transporters have different bonuses than a Hulk (the Skiff actually shares the +2 warp strength bonus with them), cost a fraction of a Hulk, but exceed it in eHP by 2-3 times. It then not may need more PG, it does need more PG and enough to fit at least an LSEII without any further help. And there is no further point in deny it with comments like "It does not need more plain EHP or resists."
Miners are being chased out of belts, because gankers know that miners fear them. It is still a mining ship and one with a large cargohold and as such will it need to have a high inertia. How are you going to explain the sudden high agility of a ship that can hold up to 18k m3 of ore and has got engines that do not allow it to fly faster than 90m/s? Battleships can fly and turn faster, because they not only have the size to be slow ships, but they have the engines to accelerate them fast. This is why battleships can not only fly faster but also align faster than mining ships. The alignment time of mining ships is therefore fine. You do not want mining ships that can spin in space nor do you want to support miners by allowing them to run like rabbits!
The rest of your nonsense "Marauders suck", "Hulks do not suck" is just more sign of your lack of experience. You then want to compare the numbers of mining ships flown with the numbers of combat ships flown. Do you even know how many combat ships there are and how many mining ships? The second most common object flown after the Hulk is the pod by the way. Why do you not go and fly, pvp and mine in your pod? |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 21:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:Your lack of posting killmails of tanked Hulks also clearly shows that getting suicided in a Hulk is a problem of the pilot, not the hull. No. You want to proof something then you stop posting, go and find the facts you want to present instead of talking about them.
As I told you before, I could not find any. Those that I found still do show that there are plenty of gankers around to kill any Hulk. It is not just destroyers, but cruisers and battlecruisers that are being used. You are not trying to tell me the Hulk can survive anything with only 25k-30k eHP? |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.01 22:26:00 -
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Petrus Blackshell wrote:Comparing the EHP of ships works for PvP ships, or for transport ships, but Hulks and the other miners are in their own category. Your comparison doesn't make sense. Here is why: No. They are all PvP ships. You mean combat ships, but your logic is also reversed. If T2 transports had a weak tank then they would get ganked for fun, too. With the tanks they have now does the effort need to pay off to be worth it. You have no point.
Petrus Blackshell wrote: It's not really like rabbits, it's more like ... Pointless! You only pick up my analogy and try to use it as a counter argument. It was only an analogy. The argument came before it and it was that battleships have better engines than mining ships and it shows in their speed and agility.
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I strongly doubt that there are more Hulks flown than there are pods. But as can be seen from the QEN, there are more Hulks being flown than the Drake, a very popular ship in both PvP and PvE. My sole point linking the QEN was that the Hulk is clearly popular, which indicates it not being broken (who would fly a broken ship?) I had to laugh when I saw the statistic with the pod being on second place after the Hulk. Someone had posted it about a week ago in another thread. But again, it is not my point. My point still is that you have only a few mining ships but a whole lot more combat ships. The Drake is flown about as often as the Hulk. As impressive as any of the two numbers are are you ignoring that the Drake is one of three Caldari battlecruisers and that it has four races and that each race has got their own frigates, cruisers, destroyers, battlecruisers, battleships, industrials, and more. So what exactly are you talking about when you say the Hulk is the most commonly flown ship? All it says is that the Hulk is the most common mining ship, but it does not say that mining ships are flown more often than combat ships. Is it so surprising when the Hulk turns out to be the most common mining ship? Tell me what it is you see in those numbers. |
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TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 00:16:00 -
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Arazel Chainfire wrote:For those showing hulk kills with only 4-6k damage taken, even though they have hardeners etc. on, I would like to remind you that killmails show DAMAGE taken, not EHP SHOT THROUGH. Ex. I have a ship with 5k hp (not EHP, just straight HP). It has 0% resists across the board. I then have a second ship with 5k HP, and 80% resists across the board. The first has 5k EHP. The second has 25k ehp. But any killmail will show 5k damage taken, even though the second took 5x the firepower to take down.
-Arazel What is this nonsense about? Are you searching for the one Hulk that could have survived a gank?
There is no ungankable Hulk. Stop trying to put any relevance into those numbers. People used four Thrashers against a completely untanked Hulk and they used a Tornado against a tanked one. They will use whatever they can to make the kill. There is no precioussss Hulk fit to rule them all. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 02:04:00 -
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Andski wrote:the hulk is clearly underpowered for its cost considering that everyone is flying t1 barges instead
oh wait diagoras' statistics show that it is literally the most popular hull in the game
no changes needed ;p You are joking. The Hulk is not popular! If the statistic is about the time spent by a player in a particular ship and this ship happens to be a mining ship, then all it means is that it takes an awful lot of time to make ISKs with mining. Only a moron would call a ship in which you have to spend such a lot of time "popular". If the statistic is about the production or the destruction of items then it is obvious who thinks of a Hulk as being popular ship - the gankers and the builders.
The Hulk actually holds only 2.5% of the entire popularity cake. The huge majority is held by the many combat ships.
It is astonishing how a ship and its profession as unpopular as this is needed for producing many of the minerals needed in building the combat ships. You would think everyone would own a Hulk by now and mines as often as they go fighting. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 09:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
No, clearly the pod is over-powered and Titans are under-powered. Next thing we get to hear is that diapers are the most popular baby product, because we love the smell of **** in a bag.
The Hulk is then no. 17 on the owner list. Not no. 1. Are you now trying to fool people? Oh, wait, you are a Goon... |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 09:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:TWHC, you were calling me a troll. Meet a real one . Aww yeah. Do not worry about being a troll. A "troll" is not only an insult but can also be an honorary title, which is passed on from poster to poster. How you want to see it - as a title or as an insult - becomes a choice you make. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 09:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:You know what hulks and mining ships DO need more tank, and my falcon ... so whats the real problem is it the gankers or is it the useless pray that cant be arsed to even keep up? Welcome, nice of you to pop in.
Did you know that your Falcon once used to be quite a powerful ship, but then got its wings clipped? |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 11:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1187362#post1187362
I agree.
I think all industrials ships should have a better tank. Not enough to be invulnerable, but enough to not be destroy by an alone Tornado. Just when I thought that GoonSwarm are like the Hell's Angels of the Internetz does one of you agree. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 14:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:lol goons are mostly bears. Your mining barges work fine your just bad at mining/indistry, If your getting ganked it's you that needs to change. All the tools you need to gather ore are there use them. Let us turn EVE Online into a browser game and with one single space ship type. Everyone gets the same and all this ship needs to do is to blink and beep. When you loose it then it is just you. We could all be as happy as fat kid eating cake or Rel'k Bloodlor here. You should have had this idea much sooner. It is a great idea and solves almost all issues. How did you get this idea, is it really yours? |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 14:52:00 -
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Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Man i can't put strip miners on my falcon......falcon needs a boost, and at least 500K to shields. Also T2 mining ships mine to much and need to be nerfed to put them in line with the mining ability of all other ships its only fair after all. i mean there what 200+ mill isk so any T2 200 mill ship should be able to mine that much. Why fix anything? Let us eat more cake. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 15:55:00 -
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Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Yar its sad to because indie has huge problems and the mining hulls do need work, just no one wants to think about it. They want snap reactionary changes to player driven environmental problems. No one thinks to ask why there is no T2 gas miner, or a hull that refines ore on the field, or why sub cap T1 manufacture is just alchemy from a fantasy game with si-fi key words, or the fact that the mining profession is about as engaging as paint drying, or why is it that mining has such huge cycle times, or were all the grave sites at. no its always the same make it ezer for my and my bots, I can't fap and scan local at the same time well using the wrong ship in a environmen that it will just get killed in........... Rubbish! You need to go into the threads which are of interest to you and take part in the discussions. First trolling and then whining about everything in general is infantile. You really must have had too much cake.
We do have T2 gas miners, but perhaps you are talking about something else? Gas mining itself is unpopular, which is why CCP wants to introduce "light" versions of boosters and to create a stronger incentive for the profession itself. You will see something coming from CCP, unless they cancel it again or they decide to do some other work first.
Mining can be quite engaging when you do it right. When you mine in fleets and have to coordinate your mining and hauling to get a high flow of ore out of the belt for example. Your Orcas need to be in good positions and miners need to watch out not to mine the same asteroids as others. A squad of miners can clear several belts in a few hours. When you are only in a very small fleet is it still a social activity where one can chat and find the time to plan other activities ahead. You actually have some of your friends around and can discuss the things for which you did not have the time yet.
To find gravimetric sites do you need to search for them. Just try and scan more than one or two systems and you will find them. Just do not try to find them to close to the downtime and when many sites have already been found. This can be an issue for some players depending on their time zone. CCP knows about it and it may all get solved once they have eliminated the downtime completely.
The rest of your comment (Alchemy, bots, ...) is not more than unreflective rant. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 17:17:00 -
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Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:A) I am with my indy toons this is my combat toon an dhe hates you because you run your mouth
B)humm what T2 mining ship mines gas agean let me look........mexoc, ice, super rego-minig nope no gas miner
C) ya those rocks shere do move, and you really have to scann than them to make shure your minig the right one and getting the best yeald................oh wait the only thing you can do is see how much is there
D) grave sites are the least common and only ever the same as the belts in system or 1 step up, as in "like " the systems sec is one step lower.
E) you dont find it silly that to make a cap or a T2 thing or a T3 thing or a story line thing or PI stuff that you have to make the parts first? You haven't notest that one you make a T1 ship you put space dust in a pile and POOF ship out of thin air? almost like one a wizard uses alchemy .....................
see OP This is a thread about how T2 minig ships need to tank.............even though all other T2's are focused to a role and the current T2 mining ships are also focused. If any thing they need to shed there dumb tank bonuses and get bonuses to IDK mining? holding the ore? how far you can mine how fast you can mine ya know some thing relevant . see thats why im here and so opposed to it and the only way to get some one to think about it longer than a sec on the internet is to get there emotions in to it. A) ...
B) As I said before it is too unpopular, but why do you not make a thread before you derail this one?
C) When two or more miners mine the same rock, then their last cycle will not get it all. In fact when ten miners mine the same rock then only one gets the last cycle and everyone else gets nothing. When you clear a belt and get to the last rocks will you notice it and see how stupid it can get when everyone tries to mine the last one instead of getting to the next belt.
D) Similiar to B), make a thread and ask for more. Raise the issue again. Do not derail this thread.
E) See D).
None are terrible points, perhaps besides the alchemy analogy. You need to find the right threads or start your own threads and raise your issues. You are only doing it wrong. |
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TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 17:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:... I still don't get why every hulkageddon the miners freak out... This is because you have no brain. Not only do you fail at raising your issues in the right threads, but you are terrible at really everything besides the destruction of huge amounts of cake. |
TWHC Assistant
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Posted - 2012.05.02 18:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Nope right thread, I oppose hulks getting more tank. See im what they call the opposition and i do not agree and because this is a public forum for a game i play and on a topic i disagree with that makes this the right place. My issue is with you ruining my hi yield miner with more tank one it needs more mining, because its a hi yield miner. And i keep looking for a mining thing that needs power grid or a astroind type that attacks and can't seem to find any............well aside from the one type that already has a T2 miner that dodges its DPS. sorry you don't like being being opposed in a forum for a game that revolves around opposition.
P.S. lol i can't even eat cake. tho i probably am at fault for the hole tuna going extinct thing.......... Yes, I can see that you are opposing quite a lot frankly, but why does more PG on a Hulk ruin your game, which only has got 35PG, but the 250PG on the Noctis does not? |
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Posted - 2012.05.02 18:58:00 -
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Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:and what mining mod uses power grid? its would be pointless like a drone damage bonus on a noctus. now CPU i could find a use for on a hulk. As far as the noctus go i would assume its so i can fit tractors a mwd and a cap battery like i do..... You can use the PG for many things. What you do with it is entirely up to you. You could fit a cap battery onto a Hulk, too, or a shield extender, an AB/MWD, smartbombs, ... One should not give the mining ships too much PG, but just so it falls in line with the rest of the newer industrial ships like the Noctis, the Primea and also the T2 transports. They all have somewhere between 125PG to 250PG. Read the thread from the start when you want to know more. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 09:29:00 -
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Andski wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Andski wrote:you can fit a hulk to tank two, hell, even three tornadoes
just have to stop fitting it for maximum yield
this is clearly too much of a sacrifice for your entitled self You are clearly doing too many drugs if you think that. http://i.imgur.com/gfCf7.jpgwow 40k EHP, 32k without the tengu bonuses easily 3-4 tornado volleys Why only a Tengu? Get a Falcon, get an entire fleet, set up a POS and mine in a Nyx... Or buy the ore on the market!
If the Hulk is not moving will the Tornado do full damage, because of 0 transversal. You also over-heat the guns when you gank so it is not "easily 3-4 volleys". Seems this Goon does not know how to gank... |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 10:12:00 -
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Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:Blablabla... Your Hulk will not tank. While its been gimped to fit a maximized tank, will it either pop or sit there with a only a sliver of a hull left, depending on how many wrecking shoots each of the Tornado's turrets manage to get in on you.
You are desperate, but you are not smart. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 10:59:00 -
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Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:Wrecking shot chance is 1%. Per gun and per volley. Three volleys with 8 guns and the chance is 24% for one gun to do triple damage.
A Tornado then does not do uniform damage, but it will either do EM or thermal damage, which makes for another 10% difference. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 11:10:00 -
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Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote:Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:Wrecking shot chance is 1%. Per gun and per volley. Three volleys with 8 guns and the chance is 24% for one gun to do triple damage. A Tornado then does not do uniform damage, but it will either do EM or thermal damage, which makes for another 10% difference. No, it's 1% chance that gets rolled 24 times for one gun to do triple damage. No, it does become a 24% chance for one gun to do triple damage when you have 8 and fire them 3 times.
You are desperate. Can you feel it? |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 11:26:00 -
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Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:But that wasn't even the important point. Nobody is going to gank your Hulk if he depends on Wrecking Shots to do so, especially with a chance that low. That would be a gamble nobody wants to make. No. Nobody wants to sit in a Hulk fitted like this when they have to depend on a Tornado not to get lucky.
As I said, you are desperate, but you are not smart. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 11:39:00 -
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Caellach Marellus wrote:24 chances at 1% is not 24%. First they ignore you, then they laugh about you, then they fight you, ...
You do not really believe that for a pilot, who knows he does not have all skills at level V nor does the ganker have all skills at level V, to take such a stupid risk. And for what? To mine some ore and the chance to lose a 300m+ ISK ship?
I beg you, please, come to your senses. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 12:07:00 -
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Buzzy Warstl wrote:Probablilities are multiplicative, not additive. I do not have a proper calculator at hand right now. A web-based one tells me that 1.01^24 is1.2697 or 26.97%.
But you are right, I only cannot care about the exact number. The chance goes up.
It is a risky gamble, which is not worth taking. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 14:54:00 -
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Petrus Blackshell wrote:And now back to your scheduled drivel and circlejerking. The point is not that one wrecking shot by a single gun will pop the Hulk. It only makes for a 2% damage increase (correct me when I am wrong). It is that you have a randomness in the damage output and other unknown factors, which makes it a gamble. What is then true for a ganker is equally true for the Hulk pilot and it is a gamble for both. So you see gankers choosing to shoot weaker Hulks and Hulks choosing to stay docked rather than to go into the challenge. It is dumb to go into a challenge with a ship far more expensive than that of your opponent and where your opponents have the element of surprise on their side. The fight between gankers and Hulks is long lost. You only do not see it. What you see is not more than gankers wiping up the field, while you think you could still win the battle if only you fit for max eHP. No one can help you there. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 16:09:00 -
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Petrus Blackshell wrote:A better argument for the buff is that a mere few destroyer hulls can kill a Hulk, but that's a result of the destroyer buff making them excellent at killing anything that doesn't shoot back at them rather than Hulks having inherently low HP. The same destroyers will utterly murder any recon cruiser, HAC, and even some battlecruisers, in addition to most frigate sized hulls. Destroyers may need another balancing pass, since 400-500 DPS with small guns is a little over the top, but I disagree that this also means Hulks need a HP buff. No. Where do I say the Hulk needs an eHP buff? All I do is to take apart the argument of EFT warriors, who believe in the Hulk having a great tank. My argument still is that it needs a PG increase, not that CCP shall buff its eHP, or to make it align faster or to automatically warn of hostile ships or whatever. All I can see and argue for is that all mining ships lack PG terribly. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 17:06:00 -
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Weaselior wrote:TWHC Assistant wrote: No. Where do I say the Hulk needs an eHP buff? All I do is to take apart the argument of EFT warriors,
gonna go out on a limb here and suggest the guy getting owned at basic math isn't taking apart any arguments the hulk isn't supposed to be invulnerable to ganks, deal with it Goons... You cannot own someone for what they do not care for.
I studied mathematics at a university about 20 years ago. What do you think of that?! I just do not care for it any more.
You want to own me... You have no idea what you are going to get, kid. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 17:09:00 -
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Weaselior wrote:please to be explaining the need for additional powergrid that is not simply adding more tanking The choice you have in fitting the Hulk and the mining ships in general are pretty thin. Giving them more PG allows for them to fit not only shield extenders, but you can fit ABs and MWDs, too. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 17:23:00 -
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Weaselior wrote:i think you're about as good at retorts as you are at math I do not care for them either.
Quote:so you get mods that are tank mods, and...mods that are useless in every situation unless you want to afk speed-tank as well
so yes you're just bleeting for more afk tank You can also fit a cap battery or a shield booster. It is irrelevant what you do with the PG. You can always choose to fit nothing and people will do just that. It is not your decision to make. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 17:50:00 -
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Weaselior wrote:as it turns out demolishing your terrible attempts to pretend you're not just looking for a buff to afk mining is what i do well
like all ships, the hulk is limited through slot layout and cpu/pg to have specific limits on what it can do No. You are only terrible at understanding the issues. Of course, people will use the extra PG for more tank. You do this with every ship, but not all will do so and you can continue to gank miners and to teach them a lesson. Only those who have learned their lesson will be harder for you to gank. Giving the Hulk more eHP directly would change this learning process too much. Leaving it the way it is makes the reward for learning the lesson not worth it. |
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Posted - 2012.05.03 18:53:00 -
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Weaselior wrote:nonsense: adding more powergrid allows you to fit a stronger tank without gimping your yield it is a pure gift to afk miners
miners who are not basically legally botting can always escape No, you post nonsense. You act like Hulkageddon is going to die. Start thinking about the extra loot you will get from a Hulk. |
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